YOURSAY 'Nothing full of wisdom coming out from five top judges.'
Malaysia's darkest day for justice and democracy
Roar For Truth: The court is as credible as the credible witness the court deems the witness to be.
Anonymous #19098644: We live in the BN's Alice in Wonderland world of judicial justice. One where two carefully selected special unit police bodyguards of the deputy prime minister (DPM) suddenly kidnap, kill and blow up a Mongolian woman whom they did not know and are sentenced to death. However, the "motive is not known and need not be known". The person giving the orders and covering up the case is free.
Then we have a sodomy case where all the international observers, jurists and laymen agree that this Saiful Bukhari Azlan character who does no work, has no qualifications but can afford to live in luxury and comfort with his family, is a believable witness. All contrary evidence is not acceptable, except those of the prosecution.
Welcome to Umno and Najib Abdul Razak’s Wonderland whereBernama TV staff are unpaid but the prime minister wants Malaysians to play golf.
Appum: When I read, in real time, the chief justice relating the whole story or basis for his concluding judgment to come, the first thought that came to me was... why is it so superficially written, so simplistic and leading to an obvious simple conclusion. Nothing inspiring, nothing full of wisdom coming out from five top judges in the nation.
Be that as it may, the complete cast of conspirators of this scheme, be it small or big, directed or volunteered, will face their karma one day, sooner or later. Life and nature will have its own natural course of conclusion and existence.
Even now, the negative curses of the people towards the perpetrators will generate very negative energy towards those concerned. Observe your life now and those dearly connected to you.
Basically: First off, the most glaring problem with this case is the contradictions whether it was consensual or non-consensual, and the fact that since Anwar Ibrahim is found guilty, then so should Saiful be found guilty. Strictly following Secton 377, both parties are liable, how can one be found guilty and not the other? That itself should be an obvious red flag for what has been going on.
And even if the government did decide to punish someone for an act of sodomy (not rape, mind you), surely it doesn’t deserve more than a month's jail compared to crimes like causing the death of a detainee.
Boonpou: Was Tuesday's sentencing of Anwar Ibrahim the darkest day in Malaysian history? I most definitely do not think so.
Malaysians have seen the darkest days in Malaysian history for decades - opposition leaders and civil society activists being sentenced under the Internal Security Act (ISA), whole communities being displaced into New Villages, indigenous groups being robbed of their land so that hydro-electric dams and all sorts of illegal logging activities are carried out in our rainforests, Penan girls being raped, deaths under police custody, Umno-friendly VVIPs being freed from wrongdoings, Umno ministers who are corrupt but are not investigated... And the list just goes on.
What happened yesterday to Anwar was expected. To stop the ongoing injustices that are ongoing would take a bigger tsunami, would take Malaysians to rise beyond racial and religious politics. Are we ready for that within Pakatan and the third voice (the civil societies). I have my doubts with PAS being on our side.
Turvy: Kim Quek's points are telling. The doubts about the evidence based on the semen should have been enough to bring about an acquittal. What more the circumstances in which the prosecution was brought and the man who was charged.
Judges are not crackers packed in a vacuum box to maintain their freshness, they are living beings who must be alive to the truths beyond the prosecution and the evidence. And sodomy at that.
Are we to believe that we are still living in an age when five elderly judges will consider such a crime against such a person without knowing the circumstances in which it was brought? Are we to believe them to be automatons making decisions from a vacuum pack?
SRMan: I can still remember reading a Thai saying when I was in my primary school days. It goes like this: ‘A drunk judge is better than a corrupt one.’ As a kid then, I could not really grasp the meaning. But now, I definitely can understand the saying better.
Wybie: I have been following the two 'sodomy' cases diligently and very much as I empathise with Kim Quek in his support of Anwar, I simply cannot agree with his 'analysis' and conclusion. I believe Anwar did commit the acts, something which is really none of anybody's business, if the two complainant parties had participated in them consensually.
But Anwar is no ordinary citizen; he should know the consequences, especially after the first case, since all his political enemies were waiting like hawks to swoop down on him. The powers that be were also silly enough to enthusiastically show their cards, thus giving many the impression that the latest is a political conspiracy. To me, Saiful also did not appear to be a genuine victim.
Nonetheless, I do see that Anwar has not been convicted 'beyond reasonable doubts' - a principle which was exercised by the Federal Court in the first case and the trial judge in the second. I feel deeply for Anwar's family!
ACR: Kudos to you, Kim Quek. As a retired accountant you very eruditely dissect judgments of public importance and this is a great legal feat. You have shown us, yet again, what the judiciary is made of here and it is a sad indictment.
Swipenter: Just because our sperm is not as strong and tough as Anwar’s is no cause to cast doubts on the accuracy of the chemist’s report. Anwar's sperm must be as strong and tough as stainless steel not to have suffered any degradation after 98 (56 + 42) hours before delivery to the chemist for analysis.
And Saiful is an angel. There is no other way for Anwar not to be guilty of sodomising Saiful due to "overwhelming scientific evidence and corroborative evidence", according to our very esteemed and learned judges.
Maplesyrup: When you 'work backwards' to get the desired answer, we cannot have every ground covered, obviously.
Smallbigblob: Just one question. What does Saiful do for a living, and how much does he earn or have in savings?
Angelababy: Sexual cases are always problematic! Recall the lady who wanted to buy a piano and who ended up getting a human organ? -Mkini
Malaysia's darkest day for justice and democracy
Roar For Truth: The court is as credible as the credible witness the court deems the witness to be.Anonymous #19098644: We live in the BN's Alice in Wonderland world of judicial justice. One where two carefully selected special unit police bodyguards of the deputy prime minister (DPM) suddenly kidnap, kill and blow up a Mongolian woman whom they did not know and are sentenced to death. However, the "motive is not known and need not be known". The person giving the orders and covering up the case is free.
Then we have a sodomy case where all the international observers, jurists and laymen agree that this Saiful Bukhari Azlan character who does no work, has no qualifications but can afford to live in luxury and comfort with his family, is a believable witness. All contrary evidence is not acceptable, except those of the prosecution.
Welcome to Umno and Najib Abdul Razak’s Wonderland whereBernama TV staff are unpaid but the prime minister wants Malaysians to play golf.
Appum: When I read, in real time, the chief justice relating the whole story or basis for his concluding judgment to come, the first thought that came to me was... why is it so superficially written, so simplistic and leading to an obvious simple conclusion. Nothing inspiring, nothing full of wisdom coming out from five top judges in the nation.
Be that as it may, the complete cast of conspirators of this scheme, be it small or big, directed or volunteered, will face their karma one day, sooner or later. Life and nature will have its own natural course of conclusion and existence.
Even now, the negative curses of the people towards the perpetrators will generate very negative energy towards those concerned. Observe your life now and those dearly connected to you.
Basically: First off, the most glaring problem with this case is the contradictions whether it was consensual or non-consensual, and the fact that since Anwar Ibrahim is found guilty, then so should Saiful be found guilty. Strictly following Secton 377, both parties are liable, how can one be found guilty and not the other? That itself should be an obvious red flag for what has been going on.
And even if the government did decide to punish someone for an act of sodomy (not rape, mind you), surely it doesn’t deserve more than a month's jail compared to crimes like causing the death of a detainee.
Boonpou: Was Tuesday's sentencing of Anwar Ibrahim the darkest day in Malaysian history? I most definitely do not think so.
Malaysians have seen the darkest days in Malaysian history for decades - opposition leaders and civil society activists being sentenced under the Internal Security Act (ISA), whole communities being displaced into New Villages, indigenous groups being robbed of their land so that hydro-electric dams and all sorts of illegal logging activities are carried out in our rainforests, Penan girls being raped, deaths under police custody, Umno-friendly VVIPs being freed from wrongdoings, Umno ministers who are corrupt but are not investigated... And the list just goes on.
What happened yesterday to Anwar was expected. To stop the ongoing injustices that are ongoing would take a bigger tsunami, would take Malaysians to rise beyond racial and religious politics. Are we ready for that within Pakatan and the third voice (the civil societies). I have my doubts with PAS being on our side.
Turvy: Kim Quek's points are telling. The doubts about the evidence based on the semen should have been enough to bring about an acquittal. What more the circumstances in which the prosecution was brought and the man who was charged.
Judges are not crackers packed in a vacuum box to maintain their freshness, they are living beings who must be alive to the truths beyond the prosecution and the evidence. And sodomy at that.
Are we to believe that we are still living in an age when five elderly judges will consider such a crime against such a person without knowing the circumstances in which it was brought? Are we to believe them to be automatons making decisions from a vacuum pack?
SRMan: I can still remember reading a Thai saying when I was in my primary school days. It goes like this: ‘A drunk judge is better than a corrupt one.’ As a kid then, I could not really grasp the meaning. But now, I definitely can understand the saying better.
Wybie: I have been following the two 'sodomy' cases diligently and very much as I empathise with Kim Quek in his support of Anwar, I simply cannot agree with his 'analysis' and conclusion. I believe Anwar did commit the acts, something which is really none of anybody's business, if the two complainant parties had participated in them consensually.
But Anwar is no ordinary citizen; he should know the consequences, especially after the first case, since all his political enemies were waiting like hawks to swoop down on him. The powers that be were also silly enough to enthusiastically show their cards, thus giving many the impression that the latest is a political conspiracy. To me, Saiful also did not appear to be a genuine victim.
Nonetheless, I do see that Anwar has not been convicted 'beyond reasonable doubts' - a principle which was exercised by the Federal Court in the first case and the trial judge in the second. I feel deeply for Anwar's family!
ACR: Kudos to you, Kim Quek. As a retired accountant you very eruditely dissect judgments of public importance and this is a great legal feat. You have shown us, yet again, what the judiciary is made of here and it is a sad indictment.
Swipenter: Just because our sperm is not as strong and tough as Anwar’s is no cause to cast doubts on the accuracy of the chemist’s report. Anwar's sperm must be as strong and tough as stainless steel not to have suffered any degradation after 98 (56 + 42) hours before delivery to the chemist for analysis.
And Saiful is an angel. There is no other way for Anwar not to be guilty of sodomising Saiful due to "overwhelming scientific evidence and corroborative evidence", according to our very esteemed and learned judges.
Maplesyrup: When you 'work backwards' to get the desired answer, we cannot have every ground covered, obviously.
Smallbigblob: Just one question. What does Saiful do for a living, and how much does he earn or have in savings?
Angelababy: Sexual cases are always problematic! Recall the lady who wanted to buy a piano and who ended up getting a human organ? -Mkini
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